November game?

Okay... just to clarify one thing that may not be clear. Paint.

I do have stuff that I keep clean for re-enacting purposes... But I don't use that in any airsoft games at all.

I don't mind dirt and mud on kit as thats "real". I object to having dirt on kit that is not "real"... yellow and red paint is not something I can leave on kit and be happy with it. If it doesn't come out 100% then that bit of kit is as far as I am concerned is unusable. This applies to all my kit, whether it be WW2 or modern. Whilst I am willing in some cases to risk modern kit near paint as its easily replaceable, my WW2 kit whether repro or not is not something I am willing to risk. Getting repro kit make can take at best weeks and in worst case months. Even paint on the ground, on a tree or on a vehicle is a risk.

Okay... the others...

Sand... If sand gets in an AEG and breaks it, thats a dead AEG and quite possibily an expensive repair. Its almost certainly possible to replace the broken parts. However with a gas gun, the possibility of replacement is much reduced. Try sourcing parts for a Marushin gas gun.

Having just come back from a holiday where we went on the beach every day , I can honestly say that sand will get everywhere!

Cold in November... let me just remind you something... this is taking place in Wales... hence it will be wet... wet... wet... and not the 80s pop group either. Its going to be cold, wet, windy and unpleasant. (Hmmm... actually that last word does describe the 80s pop group.)

Whilst this guy's plans do sound impressive and he certainly seems to have the resources and nouse. I have yet to be persuaded that the problems above are being addressed.

Paint isn't even any where near the top of the agenda - in fact it's the tiniest, most minuscule reason for not attending an event. If we don't want it (perhaps four paintballs fired in a whole weekend over 500 acres!) and it is the biggest issue then we don't have it - simple! But given the number of vehicles involved and the stupidity of hurling pyros at 'em why not come up with a solution? Josh has one that works well for his events.

Not so long ago we were praying for snow - no pleasing some people!

I'm not sure how sand in an AEG will break it. Might jam and become U/S - that would scupper an attack!

Fighting on a real beach, battling inland is such an awesome prospect, quite beyond anything we could do (Warren's D-Day is just imaginary) that I want to find every reason to go the event. Josh's proposal whether we have anything to do with it or not will be the biggest (in the sense of scale, props and ambition) WW2 airsoft event - ever. Be in no doubt that we will be blown out of the water next year. Part of me says fine, we wanted to kick start WW2 and we have, let others do the graft from now on but the other half of me wants to be part of the movement, protecting the ideals we have already built up.

With regard to numbers, Josh said as long as he makes a couple of grand out of it he will be happy and was amenable to limiting numbers, if so persuaded.

Paint:
1. A non-paint projectile. Eg. nerf ball
2. infra-red control in a similar way to the Phoenix rocket launcher.

Sand:
Yup it'll jam things up... it'll get inside mags and gearboxes, inside the barrel... much more so than any mud and/or snow. Plus the particles are hard so won't squish like mud/snow.

Jams are guaranteed... and with jams you get broken AEGs.

Has Josh had any experience using AEGs in sandy environments? Has anyone?

It's a big event... true... to make it a WW2 event he needs some help, because to be honest with the kit rules he has so far it'll not look anything like WW2.

I'm going to need some serious convincing to get me to travel to a beach in Wales in the cold (and wet) of November to play in an environment where my kit and equipment is going to get ruined and its not going to look much like WW2.

You might ask players in Arizona and California (or indeed Norway) how they manage in harsh environments - everything is possible.

Urban Assault have a nerf bazooka - it doesn't work.
Phoenix have an IR bazooka - I have only seen it used three times in all the time I have been playing. 1st time failed to work on vehicle, second time failed to work on vehicle, third time worked but only when the bazooka was in a fixed position and to detonate a charge in a fixed position - a building!
Laser targeting is a possiblity, but it's not very WW2.

Josh doesn't need our help at all. He is trying to bring in experience and knowledge that is true - but we don't know it all. The fact is he thought we were a commercial organisation running national games - very flattering but now he knows the truth! We have very limited experience in holding events. Everything I have leaned about German kit is in the last six months, everything you have leaned about Britsih Airbourne kit is in the last six months. WW2 games are not about pukka uniforms, it is about the experience. I would love to have 200 new players come on the scene - we all know what happens, you start off with a looks-like and end up with pukka, if you like it at all. We have all done it.

More importantly, very soon we will run out of steam, it's started already. We can't put the level of man-hours into it that we have done in the past. Small 'elite' games are fine. We can't drive medium-sized games like Arnhem as we did, trying to run the game and play in the game - it was very nearly our undoing.

Just to add a bit of background information. He has been in discussion with both Sean/Shaun (independently!), large re-enactment groups, John/Frank at FS, has studied TA4 and spoken to Ian, knows Paul at AI (and has the wherewithal to fund advertising). He isn't pissing around and he knows what the is doing. I want us to influence what he does, not get swept aside as a group of enthusiasts who can't get their shit together.

Lets not get hung up about paintballs, it was just an example of how he had thought outside the box ot come up with a working solution ot an a/s problem.
re the sand, people play at KGB all the time, I would suggest that it's part and parcel of playing a/s - Beach Assault will somewaht indicate the rpesence of large amounts of sand .

I can't help but note an element of snobbery and "not invented here" with the objections, as Kermit says we would be far better in the tent pissing out than outside the tent ....

Also he has bothered ot contact us to see how we can help , unlike some site owners we know well who have not asked for our help or input.

Luckily there will be no pissing into or indeed out of tents, facilities will be provided.

Christ im not sure about thsi one.

Part of me thinks lets just carry on doing what we do well, stick to running high atmosphere day games for 100 players.

i dont know if i *want* 200+ players.

Senny bridge had 150 a side and it was a kit chaotic at times.

But as you ay we could be missing out on a good thing.

I think its highly unliley players wil get hit by paint but i can tellyou this its fucking impossible to get out of webbing

I used to play paintball in us vietnam kit and my m56 *still* has yellow stains form the paint on it and its been washed loads and worn in the rain.

I think the big question is does it matter if somebody does soething bigger, bigger doesnt mean better.

Perhaps we should grow slow, consolidate what we do, keep the story, scenario and atmosphere deep rather than just do some big money maker.

I'm wary having seen the iron eagle stuff that Joshs grasp of history is sketchy to revisionist to be honest. Alhough were not re--enactors we try hard to keep a historicla flow dont we?

I really havnt made up my mind about this.

I think though if we put our name to it its our ruleset, none of this daft veteran hits andbody armour nonessne and why not use nerf rockets nstead of paintball

I'm wary of the H&S aspect of paint and shooting glasses.

A paintbal could knock them off wiht the first shot they have a lot of force behoind them compred to bbs...

This is why we need the debate . It will not be "our" event , in terms of running it . I suspect none of us want ot try ot put on a 200 player event . Or involvement is ot be decided by all of us before we proceed.

Co promoting and adding our input to this game does not stop us running our games as well as to a higher level than Gunmans. Getting Josh to run closer to our lines is the task IMHO , without taking it over ourselves. In retrun for which we will have a bigger pool of players to lure for our games in future.

I personally think he'll struggle ot get 200 for a 24 hour game in winter, but thats his problem not ours.

Lets not consider the minutea of the rules, look at the bigger picture if we fail ot be involved , this event will go ahead with or without us, and the opportunity to have any say in it will be lost.

I'd be probably more up for it if we can persude him to use our ruleset as we know it works.

I think what he has at the moment is doomed.

Mulitple hitpoints in airsoft just dont work its so open to abuse

My 2p is that I'm more than happy CiA to be involved, but I won't be attending.

We already covered that in our meeting - he doesn't mind altering stuff. We told him that his multiple rules were going too far into the live action realm and we like the KISS approach. Didn't phase him but he did outline his reasoning behind it.

Summing up, not an unsurmountable problem.

As I mentioned in the other thread I had a chat with Matt from Stirling Airsoft today.

I mentioned the Gunman thing to him and he didn't have a good word to say about them... but hey they are kind of the competition to him so I suppose thats to be expected.

His main comment was that they were 100% about making money... as such I don't think we should get involved in any sort of monetary way.

I did mention my concerns over the whole: November/Wales/Sand issue and he agreed with me... as did Boomer. It won't be pleasant.

I think I'm going to side a bit with Steve here... i.e. go ahead guys and do what you want... but right now I think that I'll probably not attend and won't want much to do with it. I may change my mind at a later date though. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong!

Finally... I doubt KGB have had much issues with the small pile of sand they have on site. However I laid on it once and my sten was soon covered... With a beach there'll be a lot more of it and its that that concerns me.

Anyway, enough... I've said my piece and you've listened... I'll shut up now...

No doubt that Gunman is in it for the money - it's his living. He recognised that WW2 became big late last year (lol, I wonder why?) and saw that it would tie in with his existing airsoft and reenactment and live action activities.

I don't see WW2 working well with Stirling - strange idea! Still, it just shows what a stir we have created. What is needed is someone to take up the Vietnam theme - a lot of players out there with kit and nowhere to go, and what is being done isn't on the scale of our WW2.

Yeah it does seem strange that Stirling have thoughts about getting involved...

However the way Ben was looking at my enfield I an sure that Warren is going to be getting another order. Matt was impressed but didn't quite share the same enthusiasm.

The main problem with Nam is that the people really in to it only want to play as the Yanks. Very few choose to play the other side... me and you CW are two of the very few who do... and when was the last time we did that?

True, there seem to be quite a few going for VC on the weekender me and James are going on...

The lack of VC put paid to the IED game a few weeks back - and the GI's just seemed to want to camp not fight!

Hmm is that the same Stirling who cancelled and event and never got round ot putting on it's free replacement/ kept the cash ?

OK I'm being contentious , but all commercial events have "issues" and "competition" . Asking Ian Warmerling what he thinks about the competition would illicit a similar response, and anyway Gunman and Stirling are approaching airsoft events from different angles completely ie ex ARMY vs "enterntainment" events. Frankly i care for neither organisations, although if asked
I still think we'd be daft to ignore the request.

More talks Thursday methinks .As an issue it's not worth falling out over .

More talks Thursday methinks .As an issue it's not worth falling out over .

Yup... very true!

If you're happy with my stand on this... i.e. go ahead if you want to and I'll just choose not get involved, then I'm happy...

More talks Thursday methinks .As an issue it's not worth falling out over .

Yup... very true!

If you're happy with my stand on this... i.e. go ahead if you want to and I'll just choose not get involved, then I'm happy...

I'm fine with that , but re iterate our level of involvement as CiA should be agreed on by all of us, even if several have no direct involvement what so ever . I can see the reasons for the objections, it's not worth destroying what we have now for , if several go off on a wrong route. I wouldn't like ot think that your concerns appeared ignored .

Well... I guess I have agreed to agree with you! lol... so no problems there!

To keep you all up to date:

JOSH

Hi dave, any news?

ME

Hi Josh
Yes, we are happy to back your November game!
We would like to persuade you to alter the rules to more closely follow the CiA ones and strip the over-complication but other than that fine, detail to be discussed. Scenario as written, fine. Numbers of players - as many as you are happy with, your limit. Our web site (due for an overhaul) and forum will sell the game as our official November game, that is to say a Gunman game in association with Comrades in Arms. We won't handle deposits/booking, this will be redirected to your site but we will maintain an updated list so that players can see what's going on without having to leave our forum. You did mention a financial benefit to CiA and if there is capacity to pass